So what do you believe?
Here’s how this uncomfortable conversation went.
“You ever hear of Jesus?”
“Uh…yeah…great philosopher [I'm mumbling now]…”
“So you’ve never accepted Jesus as your personal savior?”
“Not in the way you’re thinking of…”
“So what exactly do you believe?”
“Geez, you just had to know, to didn’t you? Um…is that even the right question?”
“Well do you believe that life begins at conception?”
Oh crap. Not that question.
“Please…I am working towards better supporting single mothers and hopefully one day adopting. But will I show up at a pro-life rally? Not a chance.”
“Oh. So you’re a liberal. Do you believe in border security?”
“Um I do think the Jesus I follow was nice to all people, yeah, not just approved citizens of the empire…”
“Aha! So you are a Christian…”
“Uh…”
“Well c’mon. So what do you believe? I mean, of course you believe in God and Jesus and heaven and hell…”
[Okay so at this point I'm officially sorry I didn't just choose to eat at a table by myself.]
[Let's try to change the subject...] “Nice heelies by the way…”
“Sure…but hey I want to talk to you about something a lot more important than shoes today, it’s about God and how he sent his son to save the world…
Let me just give you this tract. It explains how to get saved on the back. It’s easy, it just takes 5 minutes…first you have to be truly sorry, then you pray this prayer…”
[5 minutes later] “Okay so I’m still on my way to hell. Nice chatting with you…thanks for the thought-provoking tract…”
“Sure man, thanks for listening. I’ll be praying for you to make the right decision…”
[I make my exit.]
Um I only wish there was a right decision in this situation…god I hate pushy Southern Baptists!
18. tired alot. mac-aholic. designer. photographer. social media junkie. God-chaser. ordinary radical.
Feb 27th 2007
Well I find when folks are pushing their “religion” and “dcotrine”, I try to get things unto the topic of relationship
Feb 27th 2007
“And thou, being a wild Frisbee® tossed, wert stuck among the branches, and with them thou didst not partake of the root and fatness of the tree. Though if you squint a bit, it almost looks as if you did. Sort of. But not really. Because, after all, you’re just a Frisbee.® Did you really think we’d ever let you be a branch? I mean look at you. What kind of deceived fools do you think we are? Remember that lumpy kid in seventh grade who thought he could become cool by hanging out with all the cool kids in ninth grade, laughing at all their jokes through his nose? Remember him? Huh??” – (Romans® 11:17, The Message®)
Feb 27th 2007
Jason, same here. Unfortunately, relationship seems no longer to be important to many.
Feb 27th 2007
Herbe? Um. I don’t quite get your drift?
Feb 27th 2007
Yes, Herbe, just what are you getting at? Ummm, well I think I know what you’re getting at but why the artistic license leading to a misquote of the verse you cited in ‘The Message’? Most curious. Nice frisbee reference, though.
Art - came over from Jason77’s blog. Nice site you have here. Love the style.
A right decision, eh? (yep, that thar’s the Canadian comin’ out in me … hyuck). I suspect the time for the right one was at the point where you said “nice heelies”. Instead of saying “nice heelies” (good effort at being polite BTW) maybe you should have said you simply were not interested in following that line of conversation. Then if he asked why, you could either simply reiterate your lack of interest in the conversation OR point out to him that you are more interested in dealing with others regarding the gospel in relationship to them than the drive-by “thumping” tactic he used.
Just a thought. Apologies extended if I’ve inadvertently stepped on your toes.
Feb 27th 2007
No offense taken Cornelius.
Thanks for stopping by and kind remarks.
].
In hindsight, yeah, there’s 2 million things I could have done better. However, I did have a time restraint and other appointments [seriously
Feb 27th 2007
Gotta love hindsight - always 20-20. If only our foresight was as equally effective hehehe.
I plan on coming back (hope you don’t mind). That is if I can remember to find my way back here lol.
p.s. for what it’s worth, prayers going up for ya.
Feb 27th 2007
Our feeble, pathetic minds do not work very well outside the conventional ruts set down by organized, institutional “religion.” I’m sure all of us could agree to this, but this mere fact doesn’t give us an excuse. When anyone begins to conjecture that what he has believed for the last 20 years may actually be a truncated form of truth (or completely false altogether), especially when the subject concerns our carefully guarded pet peeves, the natural temptation is to react in a categorically non-Berean fashion. The Bereans received the “Teaching” eagerly; as we read in the NT. They were not morose about it. Furthermore, they were not foolishly, flippantly, facetiously open to various winds of doctrine floating around, without first confirming the idea with other, sound ideas.
When confronted with any scriptural truth that appears to be new; we can do one of two things. We can roll up into a tight little “orthodox” ball, and call anything outside the ball “heresy,” as is typical amongst some of our peers. Or, we can misunderstand the seemingly-new truth in just the same way, but with this difference: the misunderstanding is embraced, which is the only other viable alternative. The moral of the story is this: we should embrace the movement only when the movement is approached and then approved Berean-style. If the movement cannot be confirmed by the Teaching, it must be disregarded. I’m not saying the movement is wrong one way or the other. And so, my response to you folks is this: precision is not the problem so much as pseudo-precision—chaos masquerading as clarity. True, the Southern Baptists are guilty as charged. But, strange as it seems, some other groups — groups not very far away from us — are just as culpable. For this, I am grieved.
Feb 28th 2007
I had to laugh while reading this. Having grown up a baptist… I have to agree with you in that I hate the pushy ones. Their heart is really right though, you gotta commend them for at least putting some effort in it. Although being pushy is definetly not the way to do it. I’ve gone ot several churches where their witnessing time is similar to how you described above. A “1, 2, 3, repeat after me” kinda deal. But at least you could see the zealous spirit in that person. Even if it ticked you off the way they went about doing it, at least they did try to witness. How many times have we tried to witness this week?
Feb 28th 2007
Herbe,
(do you mind if I call you that? Apologies for not asking earlier)
I like that you have pointed this out because, as I see it, it is important for those who do struggle with what they are believing to understand that just because they are struggling with it doesn’t mean it is wrong. Another way I’d be tempted to put it is “don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”. Look at the ‘new’ water, see if it’s clean enough to wash your baby in it, and replace whatever dirty water exists with the new, clean stuff. Perhaps another way of describing just what the Bereans did when seeking to confirm a teaching.
One thing I would want to avoid in applying this to others, however, is the implication that to handle teachings in ways other than how the Bereans did is to intentionally be foolishly and flippantly open to various winds of doctrine. While it may be true that being open to various winds of doctrine can be foolish and flippant regarding truth, I think you’d agree it is not always the case that it is intentional. I’m not sure if you implied it was but having a sense that you might, I thought I’d offer my reaction.
I’m hoping you agree with me when I say that, in context of Art’s post, that precision and clarity are not being made issues here. While Art may be having those issues, I think this post is more about reacting to what appears to be an intentionally impersonal yet very forthright approach to the sharing of Christ. This young man’s zeal, while commendable and certainly of value in a good number of instances, was immaturely applied towards Art. I say “immaturely applied” because this account of the conversation gives me the impression that the young man intentionally or otherwise missed the cues that the “get it out and move on to the next one” approach was not particularly applicable in this instance. No doubt maturity can bring that about without negatively impacting his zeal.
For what it’s worth, though, I did like the choice of words - “…chaos masquerading as clarity.” Thought-provoking for sure.
Feb 28th 2007
Alyssa,
Good feedback. A fine line, isn’t it, between seeing the effort of allegedly over-zealous Christians as an “at least they are witnessing” act versus a “get out of my face” one. *grin* Good for you to remind us that, despite the criticism we can levy against others, at least the Lord is being testified of.